TTV: How should we view the Taiwanese delegation's withdrawal from the APEC summit?
Lee Teng-hui (
PHOTO: CHIANG YING-YING, TAIPEI TIMES
Most importantly, what kinds of strategies does China use to make Taiwan surrender, that is to eradicate the Republic of China? On this point, let's first hear from Ruan Ming about how China uses negotiating tactics to achieve its goals.
Ruan Ming (阮銘): China is a hegemonic power. That it oppresses and humiliates Taiwan can be seen very clearly from Tang's performance on Thursday. Against this hegemony, we should adopt a principled attitude, so I support President Chen's (陳水扁) measures. Why did Tang dare to act the way he did Thursday in an international forum -- not just against Taiwan's officials but also against reporters? He has seen that Taiwan isn't unified domestically and an election is coming. He wants to support candidates who oppose Taiwan as an independent entity. That's why he acted as he did.
In Tang's eyes, Chen's appointment of Li Yuan-zu (
China's negotiations follow some principles. They want to eradicate the ROC, but as long as policies such as the WTO or the "three links" (三通) are beneficial to China, they will agree to them. Their uncompromising attitude on APEC primarily depends on public opinion in Taiwan. If public opinion is unified, then there is nothing to fear. China's nature is to bully soft people and fear the tough ones. So if we are unified, they can't do anything.
Chin Heng-wei (
Another point regards [Beijing's objection to] the name "Communist China" (中共) [used by Taiwanese journalists]. In the past Taiwan was called "Nationalist," but later this term was no longer used because after popular elections, the government obtained constitutional legitimacy. But the old term "Communist China" is still around because even now their government still hasn't obtained constitutional legitimacy.
TTV: What is the difference between the controversial localization (本土化) and de-Sinicization (去中國化)?
Lee: This has to do with the "one-China" issue. In the old KMT era, "gentlemen won't stand together with thieves" (
In fact, our political reform is the democratization process. For a long time, Taiwan was occupied and ruled by alien regimes. It was not possible for the voice of many Taiwanese to be heard. So this kind of situation must change. An alien regime must be transformed into a local one. Reforms of the "10,000-year" legislature [with legislators who remained at their posts far beyond their terms, theoretically waiting for the KMT to reconquer the mainland so that elections could be held in their constituencies there] and direct presidential elections provided a legitimate basis for the creation of a government.
However, those people who originally advocated "one China," talked about the policy of "gentlemen won't stand together with thieves," and opposed localization and democratization are still around now. Even though Taiwan no longer has an alien regime, alien forces still exist. How to further develop the local regime is an important [issue].
They say that localization is a way of de-Sinicizing [Taiwan]. Such talk has no substantial meaning. There is another aspect to de-Sinicization: Taiwan is part of China, but Taiwan is not a province. Rather, it is the ROC, the ROC on Taiwan. But the old KMT says Taiwan is part of the ROC and a province thereof. Therefore, now the Communists are also saying, Taiwan is a part of the PRC. According to old KMT thinking, Taiwan will eventually have to be incorporated into China. The existence of alien forces -- and their use of the elections to emphasize the above-mentioned ideas -- have blurred public understanding.
TTV: Professor Ruan, how do you see the disturbances created by alien forces in Taiwan and the difference between localization and de-Sinicization in Taiwan's democratization process?
Ruan: Some people are now deliberately twisting the reality of localization and democratization. Localization is not a judgment of values. It is a judgment of reality. In the past, the [ROC] National Assembly had more than 3,000 deputies, and only a dozen or so were from Taiwan. The ratio of legislators was also quite similar. They basically did not reflect reality.
When the KMT came to Taiwan after their defeat by the Communists, they did not come here to settle down and develop the place. They came here to reconquer the mainland. In the later years of Chiang Ching-kuo (
[Former] president Lee was the locomotive of democratization, but the KMT under Lien Chan's (連戰) leadership is moving backward. It has thrown away Chiang's localization.
No matter which province you are from, you become a Taiwanese after you move here. It's like you become an American when you move to the US, no matter which country you hail from. Taiwan would not discriminate against anyone. What's important is for the 23 million people of this land to join hands and safeguard Taiwan's security, to resist Communist China.
TTV: When [former] president Lee led the KMT on the path of localization and democratization, what was the biggest setback?
Lee: I don't think there was any setback. We did face some difficulties during the process, but I don't think the direction was wrong. A country has to establish its history and be sure of its direction, so we promoted various policies related to democratization and localization. Later on, the "new Taiwanese" idea (
Chin: "De-Sinicization" does not mean getting rid of China. It means getting rid of the culture of an alien regime. The past KMT government thoroughly Sinicized Taiwan, deeply harming Taiwan's localization and democratization. After taking office as president, Lee began undertaking localization and democratization.
TTV: What's the so-called "Chiang Ching-kuo path?" What inspiration did you get from it?
Lee: I have a notebook which records things like localization and democratic reforms, about which Chiang was deeply concerned. He used to talk about Taiwan's development and he hoped that the people of Taiwan could work hard for the country -- to have local people work for their community.
The align regime is a big problem, and Chiang was clear about these problems.
In my notebook I also wrote about the establishment of the DPP in 1986. In my capacity as vice president at that time, I thought I should consult [former] president Chiang about this. I made a phone call to his residence in Chihai that day. The security officer who answered the phone told me Chiang was asleep. Chiang was already in poor health then.
There was no reply on the second day, Sunday either. On Monday, I arrived at the Presidential Office before eight o'clock. He knew I had arrived and asked me to see him. Without mentioning the word "the DPP," he said we should not view it as a problem. For the sake of national security and people's happiness, he said, don't quarrel over this problem and make it worse. Therefore, I once said at a meeting of the KMT's Central Standing Committee that the whole country was to be democratized and any kind of political party could be established, not just the KMT.
I viewed Chiang as my teacher. I'm a student from the Chiang Ching-kuo school. I learned a lot during the six years when I served as a minister without portfolio.
Translated by Francis Huang, Jackie Lin and Ethan Harkness
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