Sun, May 02, 2004 page4

• Raising the Hakka profile

  Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) legislator Luo Wen-jia, a veteran aide and adviser to President Chen Shui-bian, will take over as chairman of the Council for Hakka Affairs after the presidential inauguration. Luo, 38, is also favored to run for Taipei mayor. To ease ethnic tensions that emerged during the election campaign, Luo and other legislators have promoted their ''New Culture Discourse,'' which conceptualizes the nation as a multicultural entity. Luo also aims to draft policies in Hakka affairs based on this thinking, which would render Hakka culture a national commodity. Luo talked to 'Taipei Times' staff reporters Debby Wu and Caroline Hong about his discourse, his vision for Hakka affairs and mayoral ambitions.

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  Taipei Times: What is the "New Culture Discourse" (新文化論述)?

  Luo Wen-jia (羅文嘉): In the past, many people got cultural concepts and political concepts mixed up. For example, if you are asked, "Are you Taiwanese or Chinese," then this would mean different things depending on the cultural or political context.

  Politically, this question would read, "Are you a member of the Republic of China [ROC] or the People's Republic of China [PRC]?" But culturally this question would be, "Are you Chinese by ethnicity or Taiwanese with some Chinese blood?"

  

  Incoming Council of Hakka Affairs chairman Luo Wen-jia wants people to better understand the Hakka community.

  TAIPEI TIMES FILE PHOTO

  The two concepts are different. But when we talk about being Chinese or Taiwanese, the "one China" that the world recognizes is not the ROC but the PRC. We have a different understanding of China here.

  When one is asked whether one is Taiwanese or Chinese, most people in Taiwan -- though they may say they are Chinese -- don't consider themselves as citizens of the PRC but rather of the ROC.

  Many people have these things mixed up, and that's the main reason why we cannot define cultural identification in Taiwan very clearly. So in the New Culture Discourse we distinguish differences between political and cultural identification very clearly. We conclude that politically the ROC isn't a part of the PRC. They are countries that do not belong to each other.

  Chinese culture is a huge part of Taiwanese culture. A major part of it comes from the influence of the 2 million to 3 million people, mostly soldiers and civil servants, who poured in from China after 1949.

  Before 1945 Taiwan was ruled by the Japanese for about 50 years, and that 50 years also had an impact on Taiwan. No matter how much we disliked the Japanese administration, we still have to admit that Japanese architecture, cuisine and culture have all had an impact on Taiwanese culture.

  We can even trace cultural impact on Taiwan back to Ching Dynasty immigrants and the time of Koxinga (鄭成功) from the Ming Dynasty. The latest trend is Western culture, with its imported movies and music. Contemporary Japanese culture has also been having an influence on Taiwan.

  Because our political and economic circumstances are superior to southeast Asian countries, foreign laborers and brides are pouring in. Sometimes you can see a street full of Thai signs or restaurants full of Vietnamese brides. These are also having an impact on Taiwan's development.

  So, everything that has happened here over the past few hundred years should be considered part of Taiwanese culture. There have been contributions and exploitation, and there has been civil and uncivil elements. But only by admitting to all of them can we get a real Taiwanese culture.

  Another thing is that it's fine to appreciate Chinese culture, because that doesn't prevent you from deciding that Taiwan is not a part of China.

  Taiwan's problem now is actually not one of ethnicity but of immigration: earlier and later arrivals control different political and economic resources, and this has resulted in problems between them. If we adopt a more tolerant discourse, we should be able to smooth out the conflict.

  Language Barriers

  TT: Many people consider the DPP to be a Hoklo (commonly known as Taiwanese) party, and it has used the Hoklo language at many campaign events and in other political contexts. There are also fewer Hakka and Mainlander members in the DPP. Hakka and Mainlanders might therefore identify less with the party. Given this background, do you think it is difficult for the DPP to resolve ethnic conflict?

  Luo: The fact is, the majority of people in Taiwan speaks Hoklo and is ethnically Hoklo. But Hoklo is not equivalent to "Taiwanese," because all languages spoken in Taiwan -- Hakka and Aboriginal languages among them -- are Taiwanese and should be afforded equal respect.

  In what situations should we use a certain language? Naturally, you use the language of the majority wherever you are, but in all cases any non-speakers will feel alienated. It was never a problem for us to use Hoklo when we were in opposition. But now that we're in government it has become an issue. If we can make people understand that all languages are respected, then this should be less of a problem.

  I feel that, other than establishing the concept of national languages, there should also be an official administrative language in which all documents should be written and administrative matters conducted. This would be Mandarin. They do such a thing in Singapore: even though they have several recognized languages there, they use English as the administrative language.

  If these two principles can be accepted, then barriers to communication between the DPP and all ethnic groups will be broken down.

  TT: What are your plans for the Council of Hakka Affairs?

  Luo: When people begin to understand and appreciate other cultures, many ethnic problems can be resolved. I feel that we can start doing this with the Hakka.

  I've said previously that I feel the Hakka can be a sort of bridge or a beginning in the solving of ethnic problems in Taiwan. The Council of Hakka Affairs, as I envisage it, is not just the Hakka people's council, but everyone's council. I want everyone to get to know the Hakka and become friends with Hakka people.

  TT: What policies do you have in mind?

  Luo: I haven't thought out what I plan to do in the council just yet. However, I do feel that [outgoing council Chairwoman] Yeh Chu-lan (葉菊蘭) and her predecessors have done a good job. Even though the Hakka council hasn't been in existence very long, I feel that its current policies and philosophy are going in the right direction.

  Essentially, I will continue with the plans that they have put in place. I don't believe in overhauling a bunch of plans just because there's a new chairperson. That only wastes resources. However, I will emphasize the introduction of Hakka culture to other ethnic groups.

  Business Plans

  I also want to revolutionize the way business is done in Hakka communities. With changes to the economy as a whole following Taiwan's entry into the WTO, the agricultural sector is facing a crisis. The Hakka can no longer rely on farming; we need to change our approach to business. I think we need to focus more on how to develop businesses based on our cultural characteristics.

  By doing this, we can stimulate local industry in Hakka communities, promote understanding of Hakka culture and generate cultural revival.

  I believe that there are many opportunities for this in Hakka communities and I will try to help Hakka people find them. In the process, I hope to help Hakka people build up their confidence and rediscover their traditional identity.

  The annual Hakka Tung Blossom Festival is a good example of how the council is doing this. An example for the future would be Meinung [a Hakka township in Kaohsiung County], with its oil-paper umbrella industry, its preserved-radish industry and its beautiful scenery.

  TT: Can you talk about your prospects for the Taipei mayoral race in 2006?

  Luo: There are still two years to go, and it is difficult to say what will happen in two years' time. The DPP is full of talent, and it has a set of rules for internal nominations based on a democratic mechanism.

  There are also two elections to be held before it comes up, so I think it's too early to say anything about the campaign now.

  The point is that whatever capabilities a candidate has and whether those capabilities can satisfy a public need will determine whether the people choose you.

  I feel that I can develop further. I am lucky in the sense that I had the chance to receive different kinds of training when I was quite young, but I still feel it isn't enough.

  It also depends on how I perform these two years: if I cannot do well as chairman, I don't think I will have any opportunity to run. And if I do well, it is still possible I won't have an opportunity.
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