Taipei Times: Your dissertation at Waseda University was about abolishing the death penalty. Why did you choose the topic and what did you find?
Cheng Chung-mo (
PHOTO: CHEN CHENG-CHANG, TAIPEI TIMES
I began reading a large volume of literature on the topic not long after I went to Japan. And the more I read, the more I found [the topic] appealing because it is one that goes far beyond law. Having done the research, I have the confidence that I know more about the issue than others in the legal community do.
When working on the more than 700-page dissertation, what concerned me was not only why the death penalty is abolished or why it is retained, but more importantly what the convicts can do to compensate relatives of the victims.
Execution would end the offender's life in a matter of seconds, while leaving the victim's [family] uncompensated. It makes more sense to me that a system is created to have the offenders work and use part of the money they earn to compensate the victims for the rest of their life.
TT: Are you an abolitionist and why?
Cheng: Among other things, I oppose the death penalty because it has been most widely used for the purpose of politically-motivated suppression. And in the case of the US, racial discrimination and economic disparities have proved to be major flaws that make the death penalty unjust.
The failure of scientific research to prove the deterrence, incapacitation and retribution arguments adds support to my opposition to the death penalty. Also, I must say, judges are also human and make mistakes, too. Thus miscarriages of justice seem unavoidable.
Another reason ... is that I think no one wants to be an executioner.
From my point of view, if killing is wrong and prohibited, why is it that some people are authorized by the state to kill, and what's the legitimacy of the authorization?
TT: Isn't one answer that the state executes serious offenders to protect them from hurting the public and to maintain social order?
Cheng: I don't agree with that. The reason people [live together in] a state or a society is that they hope they can live in an orderly society and pursue their own well-being. In 1938, Ernst Forsthoff, a renowned German scholar of public law, proposed the idea that the government is a "provider," which provides its people as much as it can.
He also said the government has to respect the dignity of life, safeguard living conditions and elevate the quality of life. And if it carried out these duties to the fullest, I doubt anyone would commit crimes.
People commit crimes mostly because of economic, political and cultural uncertainty. Of course the individual is responsible for what he or she did, but most important is that the state is also to blame for not having provided enough.
In my view, all killing is wrong. But we need to think about why a man would become a killer. People called Chen Chin-hsing (
There must be many reasons, and the state is definitely responsible.
TT: As a researcher, you opposed the death penalty and backed up your stance with various arguments, but how did you deal with the death penalty when you were minister of justice?
Cheng: On my first day in office, three yellow packs were sent to me and my subordinate told me, "You had better open them by yourself." I opened them and saw legal papers and unsigned execution orders of three death row inmates. I told myself, "I'm an abolitionist and now I have to order these executions. I really can't do it."
I spent the whole day looking through the papers and, judging from the social values of Taiwan society then, these were really unforgivable savages. But I was thinking about why they had turned savage. Isn't the state also responsible for their acts?
I put the packs aside and allowed myself another two days to think more about it. At the end of the day, I still had to sign it, but I insisted not until I made sure the cases had no chance of special appeal or retrial.
I had examined the Hsichih Trio case and felt the convictions doubtful when I was a grand justice, so I didn't sign execution orders for the three defendants during my term as justice minister.
I thought I wouldn't authorize the execution as long as there was any doubt about a defendant's conviction.
TT: Given your abolitionist stance, human rights groups had expected much of you when you took office as justice minister. But they were disappointed that you eventually authorized several executions.
Cheng: I was a member of the Cabinet and in Taiwan society then there was wide support for the retribution argument and the idea of severe punishment under strict laws prevails even to this day.
The law doesn't prohibit the death penalty and when judges handed it down I had no option but to sign the order.
I was just an enforcer. But inside, I'm always concerned about the dignity of life and the international trend to abolish the death penalty, hoping one day we can do away with it.
TT: What's your evaluation of the abolition plan proposed by Minister of Justice Chen Ding-nan (陳定南)?
Cheng: To be honest, I'm reserved about his announcement to abolish the death penalty in three years, even though I am committed to the abolition of capital punishment myself.
Abolishing the death penalty involves such a wide range of issues -- feelings of the public, social, economic, and political environments -- that it is difficult to set a specific timetable.
But the first step I think we should take is legal education, to educate the public about why we need to abolish the death penalty. We hope that Taiwan's economic and political situation will become stable in a period of five to 10 years and that capital punishment will be abolished. It will take 10 to 20 years.
Public opinion is very unreliable because you can't expect everyone to give a professional view on a topic they are not familiar with. The judgements are solely based on personal feelings and instinct and not well thought through.
We don't necessarily have to wait until a majority of the public support abolition because it'll take 100 years or more. But I must say we've done far too little to promote the goal.
In my position as a grand justice, justice minister and now vice president of the Judicial Yuan, I cannot just say "Alright let's abolish the death penalty now," which is too sensitive. But I do what I can to promote the idea. It might not be today or tomorrow, but I believe someday we will definitely achieve the goal.
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