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Wang Dan says HK at crossroads

Sunday, Jul 20, 2003, Page 4

Wang Dan talks to the `Taipei Times' at a Starbucks in Taipei City on Monday. Wang says the massive protest in Hong Kong on July 1 marked a turning point in the territory's development. PHOTO: GEORGE TSORNG

Taipei Times: How do you assess the impact of Hong Kong's massive protest on July 1 against the government's proposed anti-subversion bill on China and Taiwan?

Wang Dan (王丹): I think this time the large number of people who took to the streets in Hong Kong marks a turning point in Hong Kong's development. Until then, the atmosphere in Hong Kong was never political and its appeal for democracy has never been demonstrated on such a large scale as we witnessed this time around.

Another thing worth noting is that, unlike past outcries by Hong Kong people that involved mostly the social elite or business leaders, this time around the demonstration was participated in by ordinary people, who stood up unanimously for democracy and their fundamental rights. It is something that has never happened before.

How this mass public outcry will evolve we can't yet tell. But one thing for sure is that the political side of Hong Kong has become more apparent.

China's changes have their own scope while those of Hong Kong have their own. After all, Hong Kong, being a special administrative region, is itself just too special. Given "one country, two systems," there is always an excuse for events in Hong Kong to not start a chain effect or waves elsewhere in China.

"How this mass public outcry will evolve we can't yet tell. But one thing for sure is that the political side of Hong Kong has become more apparent."

Wang Dan, a student leader during the 1989 Tiananmen Square demonstration and now a writer-in-residence at the invitation of th

While we can't tell right away what kind of immediate impact there will be on China, there will be something eventually.

As for Taiwan, the July 1 demonstration obviously severely dim-med the appeal of Beijing's promise of "one country, two systems" to people in Taiwan.

TT: What's your outlook on democratization in China? What kind of events could act as a catalyst and deliver an impetus for democratic development in China?

Wang: Many changes are taking place in its internal structural and thus outsiders are unaware of them.

The growing consciousness of the middle class will clash with the government over economic issues, and then escalate later to social issues. Plus, the increasing flood of Chinese intellectuals returning to China from years abroad will eventually prompt changes, new ideas and influences to take shape in Chinese society.

On the surface, all seems tranquil and stable with everything moving day in and day out just fine. But the thing is that changes and influence are taking place unobtrusively and imperceptibly.

Discontent among the people is boiling and fomenting and one day an unexpected event will bring their suppressed resentment and grievances to the surface like we've just seen in Hong Kong.

The mass demonstration that took place in Hong Kong on July 1 was not a sudden out-of-the-blue outburst but a result of underlying discontentment that Hong Kong people have harbored for so long. The introduction of the proposed anti-subversion legislation was the last straw that prompted them to jump out and say, "We have had enough."

Most people in Taiwan are pessimistic about reform in China with some thinking that democracy in China is out of reach for at least another 40 years.

I disagree. I think five to 10 years from now we will see democratic change surface in China. Take the mass protest as an example. Hong Kong people are not known for being politically emotional, but look at what happened on July 1. Such events could and will happen in China as well. It will just take a sudden event to ignite people's underlying resentment and anger to bring them to the surface.

I think the changes will mostly take place in China via a combined force from the bottom up with a response echoing from the top down. After all, since there is no mature opposition party in China, it's hard to imagine that changes will take place from the bottom up.

I think Beijing's hosting of the 2008 Olympics Games could be a great opportunity to help promote democracy and openness in China. If there is democratic movement in China at that time, would the Beijing authorities dare to strike it down by force at a time when the world's spotlight is fixed firmly on it? If so, China might just as well forget about hosting the Olympic Games as Western countries and the international community will renounce and boycott China. If Beijing can't crush the demonstrators by force, then it will have to accept the demand of democracy from these freedom fighters.

Student movements in South Korea used the 1988 Seoul Olympics as a chance -- coupled with international pressure -- to push for a democratic government.

If Korea can do it, why can't China?

Beijing's order to persecute me will expire in 2007 and I intend to return to China after that. If Beijing still intends to ban me from coming back, I will sneak in anyway.

TT: What are your expectations for cross-strait relations?

Wang: I think peace and stability, along with people's well-being, are the utmost values that should be held. Politicians from both sides of the Strait should look beyond their differences over independence and unification, and approach cross-strait relations from the perspective of maintaining cross-strait peace and stability.

The cross-strait relation is stalled now because of a gap in understanding. Both sides are not talking on a same platform. To negotiate, there must be rules and both sides must obey those rules. How can dialogue be possible when the rules are being defied.

TT: What do you think would help bring the two sides to dialogue again?

Wang: I think time is on Taiwan's side with its economy on the track and other developments going well.

When China evolves to be more open, I think then both sides of the Strait can explore the possibility of conducting dialogue as a more open China will allow both sides to reach a more rational phase in conducting negotiations.

For now I think it is best to maintain the current status quo. I don't think it is the best way out now for Taiwan to announce independence, nor is it good for China to forcibly invade Taiwan. So I think the most optimal way out for cross-strait relations is to maintain stability as both sides continue to explore and contemplate the best way of dealing with it.

TT: Referendums have been a hot topic in Taiwan. What's your opinion on referendums?

Wang: I think if Taiwan is to talk about referendums, it should avoid the issue of independence versus unification. In short, I think the talk of referendums is itself just a campaign strategy. I personally think it is an election issue and not a cross-strait issue.

TT: If one maps out two paths in front of you -- one being politics and the other literature -- which one would you choose?

Wang: To roam between the two roads and shuttle between the roles of politician and writer, because one role is more outward and the other is more personal. I don't wish to become an absolute politician; on the other hand, I would feel I owe an apology if I were to dedicate myself only to writer. I think it is good to be balanced.
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