Amory Lovins and his wife, Hunter Lovins, founded a research center, the Rocky Mountain Institute (RMI), in 1982 to provide government officials and companies with necessary information about energy policy.
By demonstrating new ways to save natural and human resources, the RMI not only aims to protect "natural capital;" it also creates new wealth -- financial capital -- to improve the quality of life.
In a new book co-authored by the Lovinses with Paul Hawken, titled Natural Capitalism, they argue that social upheaval will result if social and environmental problems are not responsibly addressed.
PHOTOS: GEORGE TSORNG, TAIPEI TIMES
"Natural capitalism is about choices we can make that can start to tip economic and social outcomes in positive directions," the Lovinses write in the book.
TT: Do you think Taiwan energy policy will be reformed soon?
Hunter Lovins: That remains to be seen. In a way, it shouldn't change because we came here. It should change because the people of Taiwan look at the argument -- many of which have been put forward by experts here in this country -- and make the right decision. All we can do is bring the experience from some of the rest of the world to share with experts here to help people make the best decision for Taiwan.
PHOTOS: GEORGE TSORNG, TAIPEI TIMES
They will [reform energy policy] ultimately because of economics. If you don't, you will not be a competitive nation.
Amory Lovins: I think everything is starting to change. The system is opening up to new ideas, new policies, and new technologies. So, this is a very healthy development, which will give you a more competitive energy system. [From the way officials at] the Energy Commission (能源會) described it to us, liberalizing the electricity market is a very good start. I think they are generally in the right direction.
TT: Do you feel officials in Taiwan realize the necessity of reforming energy policy?
Hunter Lovins: Some do, and some don't -- yet. Some still believe that building the NPP-4 (the Fourth Nuclear Power Plant) is a good idea. But we also heard from some officials that they thought that there were alternatives. It is similar to some other countries. There are people on both sides and [the use of nuclear energy] is still an open debate. There are new technologies just now entering the market that will make it unnecessary to build more nuclear plants. Over time, they will enable you to close the ones operating. Because they [the new technologies] give cheaper and more reliable power, that is safer and better for both the environment and national security.
TT: Why do you say the next millennium will be nuclear-free?
Amory Lovins: Only a handful of countries are continuing to order nuclear power plants. China announced in March that it would place no more nuclear plant orders for at least five years because they have cheaper alternatives. In Europe and north America, there's no future for such technology. Countries like Germany and Sweden are phasing out nuclear energy.
TT: Do you think the public in Taiwan is aware of the so-called new trends?
Hunter Lovins: I feel the public [in Taiwan] is probably not as aware of the opportunities from other countries as we are and that's the value of our coming here.
Amory Lovins: Some officials here are not fully aware either. I would like to take ABB [Asea Brown Boveri Ltd, headquartered in Zurich, Switzerland], one of the world's biggest builders of power plants and heavy electrical equipment, as an example. ABB group just announced that it would not build any more central-powered plants but only decentralized technologies. The reason is that in competitive, market-driven energy systems, almost nobody is buying central power plants any more. [Investors] are buying decentralized options because they work better and cost less.
Hunter Lovins: Fuel cell are just one of the new technologies. There also are technologies involving micro-turbine, wind machines, solar energy and co-generation.
TT: Talk about your experience when you deliver such new ideas to other countries.
Hunter Lovins: In Taiwan, some officials welcome our ideas. Some don't. But in the US, where many new technologies are being developed, we have exactly the same experience talking with officials in the government. Some of them are very surprised, but some are not.
Amory Lovins: Of course those who are surprised are those who spent billions of dollars on something that they discovered later they cannot pay for. It's important that Taiwan avoid doing that.
As for other countries, we certainly think China is adopting new technologies based on our conversations there and based on their behavior. China is slowing down the rate of burning coal because they care about both the environment and economics. They are investing in alternatives, such as wind power systems spreading in Mongolia. China and India are among the world leaders of wind power. China has built [liquid natural] gas infrastructure for five big cities.
TT: What path would you propose for Taiwan, in terms of energy?
Amory Lovins: Wind energy might be good for Taiwan. Three quarters of all wind machines sold in the world trade come from Denmark. I'm sure that Taiwan can make inexpensive wind machines.
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